Curse

Whenitrainsitpours · Dec 29, 2008, 07:47 AM // 07:47

As I was ABing one day with Magehunter's Smash equipped, I wondered why the only hammer elite I ever see being used in GvG is Devastating Hammer.

As of now, there are 6 hammer elites:

Magehunter's Smash
Devastating Hammer
Enraged Smash
Forceful Blow
Backbreaker
Earthshaker

Of all those 6, the only one I see being used is Devastating Hammer. The only ones I personally use for PvP are Magehunter's Smash and Devastating Hammer.

I understand that Devastating Hammer is the cheapest KD to use however wouldn't the "unblockable if target foe is enchanted" effect of Magehunter's out-weigh that?

I can see why Enraged Smash and Forceful Blow aren't being used in the meta. Since Enraged Smash just gives 5 adrenaline with a Bull's Strike effect and Forceful Blow is just damage and weakness which can be removed.

However, I don't understand why Backbreaker, Earthshaker, and Magehunter's Smash aren't being used by the meta.

True, the 10 adrenaline cost of Backbreaker is a lot however it guarantees a 4 second KD. I also see however that you can't 1/4 sec knocklock with Backbreaker.

Earthshaker, it's AoE and still blockable. Even though you may not have the opposing team's members all clumped up, wouldn't it be pretty decent to KD 2-3 people at once for 2 seconds?

As for Magehunter's Smash, I don't understand why Devas Hammer > Magehunter's even if Devas requires 1 adrenaline less. Magehunter's would hit through blocking skills like Guardian/etc.

So, why is Devas hammer the standard on a hammer bar?

Ajantis · Dec 29, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Magehunter is used the most..

Luminarus · Dec 29, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Enraged is pretty popular in the current meta iirc, and magehunters is definately used more then dev. Backbreaker is just too expensive, earth shaker is also used, although its mroe used in HA, not enough point to AoE KD in GVG.

Icy The Mage · Dec 29, 2008, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Magehunter's is definitely used more than Dev Hammer in GvG. Also, you're knocking down for 3s, not 2s.

distilledwill · Dec 29, 2008, 09:02 AM // 09:02

I'd say Magehunter's and Dev are used about equally, with Magehunter's being use slightly more. When people DO use Dev its for the weakness + [[Heavy Blow] - allows for a little more damage. As long as you have anti blocking/enchant removal then Dev is ok I guess.

360° · Dec 29, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Dev hammer is used more frequently. And Heavy blow is very rare.

Dre · Dec 29, 2008, 09:50 AM // 09:50

[Magehunter's smash]&[Hammer Bash] > [Devastating Hammer]&[Heavy Blow] imo

Rhamia Darigaz · Dec 29, 2008, 10:11 AM // 10:11

magehunter is used the most, not dev hammer
it's used the most because it lets you knock the RC on spikes more consistantly.

Zamochit · Dec 29, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

magehunter is used the most, not dev hammer
it's used the most because it lets you knock the RC on spikes more consistantly.

QFT

Also Backbreaker was used regularly in HA for a while...just by assassins instead of warriors.

dusanyu · Dec 29, 2008, 10:34 AM // 10:34

obs much?
[Magehunter's Smash][Crushing Blow][Hammer Bash][Bull's Strike][Flail][Distracting Strike][Enraging Charge][Death Pact Signet]

has been /the/ hammer build in GvG for a while

Symbol · Dec 29, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

I don't see the point in using anything other than enraged smash now, TBH. It can do everything the other elites can (including double knock with bash + enraged + bash again) AND gives you a supercharged bull's strike replacement AND gives you adrenaline out the ass so you can spam KDs and 120 damage mighty blows.

*lemming* · Dec 29, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Heavy Blow is awful.

Forceful Blow doesn't knock your target.

Backbreaker is bad because the extra one second on your KD doesn't really do anything and definitely isn't worth an additional four strikes over Dev Hammer.

Earthshaker is bad because having your knock either be unblockable for the same price or cost 20% less adren is better. Outside of HA, the AoE knock isn't particularly reliable.

Dev is still really good and Enraged Smash is ok, but Magehunter works a lot better since it's an unconditional knock for your spike, probably on a monk with aegis guardian dstance.

superraptors · Dec 29, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre

[Magehunter's smash]&[Hammer Bash] > [Devastating Hammer]&[Heavy Blow] imo

[Devastating Hammer]&[Hammer Bash] > [Magehunter's smash]&[Hammer Bash]

i like dev better since i its good for linebacking and 1 andrenaline less can keep a kd chain on anyone for eternity more than magehunters
________
Weed vaporizers

Phe Belladona · Dec 29, 2008, 02:30 PM // 14:30

dev is charged to be used on warriors and magehunters is used to KD monks on spikes, hammer warriors are pro -.-

Dre · Dec 29, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

[Devastating Hammer]&[Hammer Bash] > [Magehunter's smash]&[Hammer Bash]

i like dev better since i its good for linebacking and 1 andrenaline less can keep a kd chain on anyone for eternity more than magehunters

1 adrenaline less won't do you any good if your attack gets blocked.

Shendaar · Dec 29, 2008, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Magehunter is good for landing kds when you need them(monks on spikes, etc), but other than that, getting the kd isn't that useful if Crushing gets blocked anyway. I'd say its a matter of preference for the most part.

Ex Death · Dec 29, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

Of all those 6, the only one I see being used is Devastating Hammer.

The 3 elites being used right now are Devastating Hammer, Magehunter Smash and Enraged Smash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

I understand that Devastating Hammer is the cheapest KD to use however wouldn't the "unblockable if target foe is enchanted" effect of Magehunter's out-weigh that?

Yes it would, depending on the situation. In an 8v8 standfight, it is generally better, since it is an almost guaranteed knockdown on a monk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

I can see why Enraged Smash and Forceful Blow aren't being used in the meta. Since Enraged Smash just gives 5 adrenaline with a Bull's Strike effect and Forceful Blow is just damage and weakness which can be removed.

Actually Enraged Smash is being used by some teams at the moment. Its an incredibly powerful skill, but its just that its slightly awkward to build a good bar around. You want to use it to charge hammer bash as much as possible, but your energy will probably not permit many more energy skills than Enraged Smash and Crushing Blow on that bar. Since you obviously lose all adrenaline with hammer bash, this means that your other adren skills will probably be limited (although most people run mighty/body blow with it). You're right about Forceful Blow though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

True, the 10 adrenaline cost of Backbreaker is a lot however it guarantees a 4 second KD. I also see however that you can't 1/4 sec knocklock with Backbreaker.

The knockdown of Backbreaker isn't guaranteed in the sense which Magehunter Smash provides. You can quarter knock with it using Hammer Bash but you will have built up adren while the person is knocked down and using Hammer Bash might seem like a waste because you will have built some adren for your next Backbreaker during this time. It's still a good skill, but powercreep has basically meant that there are better options available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

Earthshaker, it's AoE and still blockable. Even though you may not have the opposing team's members all clumped up, wouldn't it be pretty decent to KD 2-3 people at once for 2 seconds?

It's basically a question of whether or not you feel that the extra point of adrenaline (in comparison to Dev Hammer) is worth the chance of knocking down multiple people. I personally, and I think most other people, prefer a knockdown of 1 less adrenaline

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

As for Magehunter's Smash, I don't understand why Devas Hammer > Magehunter's even if Devas requires 1 adrenaline less. Magehunter's would hit through blocking skills like Guardian/etc.

Yes you're right but like I said before it depends on the situation. Magehunter Smash is generally better at the stand, while I prefer Dev on splits and collapses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

So, why is Devas hammer the standard on a hammer bar?

It's not. I generally prefer Devastating Hammer when I know/expect split situations occuring. Although the 1 less point of adrenaline may not seem like that much, it does in fact count for quite a lot in collapse situations where you've got a very small amount of time to score a key kill. Also, it has obvious synergy with Heavy Blow which I actually prefer to Hammer Bash in splits, and will have a pretty good chance at triggering against a lone monk for example. Also, the weakness is somewhat decent when linebacking I guess.

Whenitrainsitpours · Dec 29, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Well, I've also been watching GvGs for the past couple of months. Out of all the GvGs I watched, I've probably only seen Magehunter's used 2 or 3 times which is why I thought Devas was standard due to the fact that it was the only hammer elite I see.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Dec 29, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

Well, I've also been watching GvGs for the past couple of months. Out of all the GvGs I watched, I've probably only seen Magehunter's used 2 or 3 times which is why I thought Devas was standard due to the fact that it was the only hammer elite I see.

What GvG were you obs'ing o.0

Magehunters is used a substantial amount more than Dev Hammer. You just can't beat the unblockable effect to KD the prot on spike.

Ec]-[oMaN · Dec 29, 2008, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Depends on which guild/build you watch. Certain builds are going to fair better if the Hammer Warrior takes [MageHunter's Smash] because the build being used has a lack of interrupts or enchant removal or the Hammer wants the guaranteed KD because he is actually the one spiking. Other teams running a ranger+dom mesmer have more interrupts and enchant removal therefor [Devastating Hammer] is used. The only two maps I'd run [Earth Shaker] on are Weaping, burning, which I've used in the past and can be very effective.